View from the Top Episode 13 – Epic Fallen Earth Contest
On Episode 13 of a View from the Top Karen assists me in picking the winners for the Epic Fallen Earth Contest I hosted on Epic Slant! One of the methods of entry was to submit a question for our show and you guys truly delivered! We received a mountain of entries that were hilarious and/or interesting. For this show we decided to invest some serious time in answering the questions. I want to thank everyone who participated and congratulate everyone that won! Look for more contests in the future!
Show Notes
- What have we been up to? Here is a hint, starts with EverQuest and ends with 2.
- Adam gets ganked in Eve Online. Not shocking.
- Karen goes to camp! Has she been drinking? She suggests she is being followed by a marshmallow.
- Adam chases pink rats.
- Contest winners! First Prize Winner: Matt
- Runner Up Winners: Anonymous, Peter, Harrymanback, and Amanda
- Best Contest Name: Matt (A different one)
- Best Contest Reason to play: Dan Hogarth
- Best Contest Questions: Kyraine the ranger, Darth Adams, Green Armadillo (who passed to…), Tayluka
- Karen and Adam answer your questions!
Acknowledgments
Thank you to everyone who submitted questions! We really appreciate them and hope to hear feedback from you on how our answers went!
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about 1 year ago
Thanks for the great show and answering my questions (Kris/Kyraine)! Keep up the great work!
about 1 year ago
It was our pleasure!
about 1 year ago
Great show, that question from the female orc was epic.
The last question you guys tackled about the guild that’s feeling burned by people gearing up and then leaving is unfortunately a bit harder than simply bucking up and finding a raid leader.
There is a point late in expansions (or early in expansions if, as with TSO/TSF, the new gear is worse than the old) where it becomes very difficult for a player with the interest and skill to be a hardcore raider to get the gear they need to apply to a guild that fits their playstyle. Hardcore guilds are no longer running that content because they longer need it, and they expect applicants to find their own path some how. More often than not, that path involves applying to a “casual raiding” guild that is not going to be a good longterm fit in order to obtain the prerequisite guild.
I’ve been in a guild that was been repeatedly used as a feeder guild for players who quit to apply to a better one the moment they have the gear to meet the application requirements, and it’s absolutely devastating to morale. You can’t block this by “screening” players more effectively, because ultimately “casual raiding” guilds are dependent on players who COULD make the cut at a better guild. Maybe sometimes the applicant doesn’t even know that they actually want a more hardcore guild until they realize that the reason why the guild is stuck on a boss is because of lax requirements. (This is also the time when top new players abruptly leaving is the most damaging to morale for those who remain, as it can be a huge setback just when you think you’re in a position to make progress.)
It really does set up a negative feedback cycle where you’re going to your core players and asking them to get excited about farming content that you beat a year ago (and maybe even about going back and WIPING in that content as you train newbies), driving more and more players to question whether they too would be happier in greener pastures (either another guild, or another game).
More than anything else, this problem is why WoW has quarterly gear resets. There’s no reason to use a casual guild as a feeder anymore, because you can get the gear you need for the game’s top dungeon by zerging down trivial 5-man content.
about 1 year ago
I am the guy that wrote the last question and Greens comments above are more or less what has happened, the core alliance raid force are still there but they are doing their thing (understandably so). Guild leaders have tried to start WOE runs but quit as it was wipe 101 as no one had the gear or skills. So it is really about what you do instead, personally I do rarely play my main anymore as I have nothing to do than “Soloquest 2″ and then grind marks so I can do, well grind more marks maybe. Others in guild are running their 953rd alt to 90. And of course someone should step up to the plate but it is easier said than done in a situation where the consensus in EQ2 is “soandso content is easy and should be done in a short time on farm status if you can not do that you are no good”.
I dunno, personally I have given up but I care about the guild and I find the whole discussion about non raiding end game fascinating: What you are supposed to do in end game if you can not get into raiding? What are all the new people that SoE wants into EQ2 supposed to do, they will most likely not get into a raiding guild after doing “Soloquest 2″ to 90
about 1 year ago
Peter,
I’ve been in that position before and I can tell you that though there isn’t an easy answer, there are answers that work:
1. Pre-Screening: If you let just anyone into your guild, that’s exactly who you’ll get. You need to set up an application process that helps you to weed out those applicants who are specifically looking to raid, who are asking about gear right away, who mention more than a few former guilds, etc. Learn to ask the right questions of applicants. Learn to flag the right answers as potential issues and ask follow-up questions.
2. Build your CORE: You don’t need 24 people to build a 24 person raid force. You need a solid core of the RIGHT people who make up 1/3 to 1/2 of your raid force. Identify those members who are committed to doing what needs to be done and work with them first and foremost to build the core your raid force needs. This may mean having people switch classes in some cases. It may mean rescheduling your normal raid nights. It may even mean artificially creating cliques in your guild for the short term. Accept that these things are not evil and work through it. Once you have your core, the rest of the raid is essentially plug-and-play.
3. Find a ally guild: Someone out there is going through the same problem you are. Find them. Befriend them. Offer them spots on your raids. Let them know the nights you’re rolling and when you get to about 15 minutes prior to move time – let them know you have some open spots.
4. Build a DKP or Council system for loot: This one can seem controversial for truly casual guilds. People like rolling for loot. They like arguing that “if you show, you have a right to roll”. Understand that a dice roll system does not reward consistent attendance. Understand that a random award system can be abused by people who are looking for short term gains before moving on. A points system can be built around attendance – it rewards those who show up more often and more consistently. It also gives members more of a stake in your guild – just one more thing they’d have to give up if they left your guild.
5. Group early, group often, group harder: We bond in groups. Raid success doesn’t start in raid zones. Raid success starts in group zones. Once you’ve identified your core, get them grouping together OFTEN in harder and harder zones. Put alts on hold. Stop soloing. Get grouping. Get grouping. Get grouping. Football teams don’t wait to practice till the night of the big game. You don’t become better raiders if you never practice together between raids.
about 1 year ago
The situation is understandable, however I think getting a leader and a set “this is what we are doing” and stick to it, work towards, with your core of folks is the way to go give them a goal, tell them where they are going to end up so they can get excited about “that” not farming the old content. If you have enough, start running instances with them, get them gear. Take the green players, mix the good and the not so good. But tell them “this is the zone we want to get to, if you know of ways to help please step up”.
Teach the green players. If you have mediocre players who may not know much about how to group or raid, say hey, I heard about this spec “x” on this website x and maybe it might up your dps, or let you do whatever it is you guys are doing. Don’t do it as “you suck get better”, but more like hey we want to do this, and if you try doing this it may make you kick ass more.
My guild started off with a core of raiders, and aquired alot of solo green players. They wanted to raid and group but did not know how or never had, it was alot of painful wipes, but those players are now some of my best raiders because all it took was someone to teach them how to play in a group instead of soloing. It was alot of hours of going through aas, casting orders, doing groups with good players mixed with not so good, letting our green tanks tank easier instances with the better dps to figure out what works and what doesnt.
You will always have people who use you as a steping stone. The best thing I can suggest there is to look at your application process, look at what this person is like in guild, see if they fit. Create your own requirements for applying, that way they can’t just jump in and then jump out.
as for this comment: “soandso content is easy and should be done in a short time on farm status if you can not do that you are no good”.
Who cares what the community thinks? There are thousands of players in eq2. Many of them have never even seen woe, or any content little lone know that it should be easy.
I wish you luck though
about 1 year ago
Great show. Lots of really good advice. Im enjoying these mail bag episodes.
Congrats to all the winners of the contest.
about 1 year ago
I want to thank you for answering my question so thoroughly. Your answers really made me see that I needed to let go of my ego a little bit and, most importantly, be proud of and thankful for my officers that kept things together for the guild’s sake while I was away instead of crying “omg, the world DIDN’T stop turning while I was gone!” I don’t listen to a lot of podcasts but I enjoy this one a lot and I’m really enjoying going through and listening to some of the back episodes that I missed before finding you guys. Thanks for an awesome show!
I also want to say thank you to Green Armadillo for passing his Fallen Earth key to me, that was very generous of you!